1.
The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil and was written as a study by Philip Zimbardo after conducting an experiment where he used students as "prison guards" and other students as "prisoners" after only six days the experiment had to be stopped because of how brutal the would-be prison guards (students, mind you) had become.
As I have not delved fully into the book, or the study itself held at Stanford I will say that if a person is focusing only on the lower aspects of existence and becomes convinced that there is only evil and embraces that paradigm as their own "reality" then sure it would work. I wonder though if the "guards" were simply manifesting what they thought a "guard" should be, like taking what they know from the un-reality of popular media. I think it would have gone very different if they did not use all male guards (they did) and chose people from different cultures and social standing (these were all Stanford students). Regardless history is replete with many more examples where people spontaneously act with kindness and compassion. Consider the Japanese after their quake. Consider the world coming together for Haiti after their quake (I was there doing humanitarian work, and there were amazing things happening). Sure there are some douche bags, and you know what, sometimes I'm one of them - but not all the time. Hope this didn't muddy the water too much.
2.
The lucifer-experiment is one of these things that happen when you tell people "you are spirit, you can do EVERYTHING"... there IS a limit. And this limit is your mind. Accept it.
There is one simple reason why it's impossible: Even IF you become a source-soul (because thats what this experiment is all about), this universe you are in is not the one you created. If you want to get a successfull lucifer-experiment done you have to do it in a place that is not already controlled/created by another source. A place outside of the universes.
This is what lucifer-experments in this universe are doing: You cut yourself off from a system while you still try to exist in it. You become a foreign body to that system. Fate and therefore the universe itself becomes your enemy, just like a body that is attacking a virus inside of your blood with white blood cells. Thats why you become "evil": You automatically become an enemy of this system.
And thats exactly what happened on mars. You think ALL of the martians did that experiment? Of course not. Everyone had his own choice: You could ever try it or not. You can't just force people to take part of something so dangerous. So the martians were split into two parts: The one part did the experiment, the others did not. And they respected each others decision... until the experiment happened. And it worked, it did exactly what they wanted it to do. They just didn't get that it's still a stupid idea for the reason I just explained. So more or less one half of the martians became an enemy of everyone who was still connected to our system which includes the other half. It was a huge world war with everyone invited and enough nukes (not actually nukes, but you get the idea) have been thrown to destroy every life on the planet.
Some of the lucifer-martians escaped, came here, we didn't kill them even though they killed some of us because we have been way too nice and then they fucked EVERYTHING up. Fate even did send an god damn meteor to kill them! And we have been the colleteral-damage! And then fate even technically was the reason their merkaba-portal didn't work - I know that because I figured out that I, in a past life LONG ago, knew that something like this would happen. I actually made use of it because it brought my shadowself here from the twisted realms. And I was only able to see this event in the future because it was planned by fate, it wasn't random, fate planned this in order to get rid of the martians. Believe me or not, but what are the chances a meteor, out of all places, hits their town on atlantis? It wasn't coincidence. Fate was involved.
I hope I blew some minds here or at least gave some of you a new way to look at this.
3.
As I've said one million times, good and evil are subjective. Neither you, nor anyone else, can condemn the Lucifer Experiment because it appears "evil" to you. That is not a valid reason to oppose this happening.
I assume many that have broken away from Source via the Lucifer Experiment thought as I do now. They want to defy Source because they perceive it as malevolent/evil/etc and they can't take that. So they defy Source, open themselves up to new knowledge, and what do you know, Source tries to kill them. Because Source/the consensus cannot accept these new forms of life outside its own stage of puppets, it has to try everything in its power to kill them. A complete disrespect for life.
The Lucifer Experiment is not fully perfected. Once it is, a new race of beings will be born, but while Source still reigns I don't think that will be possible, unfortunately.
4.
I don't even truly believe in Source. I suppose I believe in it, but as I have made mention in other posts I feel that Khaos takes the dominant position over Source itself, and that Source is simply another aspect of Khaos (as an infinite number of other things are).
But the information Via Thoth Via Spirit Science says they cut themselves off from spirit, and thus became beings of only logic, Cutting off emotion. Yet in that, pure logic would dictate that doing harm to another may prompt revenge, revenge being harmful to you and thus logic would reject violence. Violence comes from anger, greed, and other emotional centers which are active in Right-brained (I think) individuals. So then the Lucifer Experiment did not in fact create left-brained individuals, it created a kind of randomly corrupt-right brained group that already had the technology to kill themselves.
Here is the question. Thoth, a seemingly vague figure, one who has been regarded as a Savior or a Fallen Angel that is here to detroy/corrupt/whatever us for his own gains. Has this story that he tells a guy about how there is a Thought "Dead Zone". If you start thinking in a certain way (Keep in mind this thought process would counter-act his own powerbase) than you are simply going to become the worst rapist/murder/thief and that is all you will do and have happen to you, you become a blight, etc. etc. It creates a Fear-zone, a section of taboo thought. Yet Source (It seems) IS all things. Therefore if Source IS all things than nothing is taboo. If this is the universe experiencing itself than it is also the universe lying to itself.
The thoughts of Thoth seem to be more akin to someone denying a snack because it will make them fat. This thought process simply does not make sense. Why are thoughts considered evil? A way of life that involves thinking in a right or left-brained manner considered evil? You could consider Right and Left brains to each have their own independent positive and negative charge. That positive and negative charge you may call empathy. The more empathic someone is the more positive their charge (That is to say how much they see and perceive the needs of others as well as themselves).
So once again I am finding logical faults in the Lucifer Experiment. And before we get into higher being channeling. The main reason I am asking this question is primarily because of that. So we can devolve this into a he-said she-said, or we can look at this from a perspective of reason and try and reconstruct the events that happened, and also try and figure out who Thoth is. I used to have a positive thought of Thoth, but the more questions I ask the more potentially malevolent the creature becomes.
5
So when races use the Lucifer Experiment (however imperfect) it defies Source. Source does not like to be defied, so Source routs the anomalies.
But I wonder, how long can Source keep doing this? How long until its creations grow out of hand. How long till they begin to be born with defiance of Source in them, like me?
6
I guess it was never made clear that I don't really believe in Source, outside that it exists because other people believe it exists. To me it is as real as the Easter Bunny. I believe in a power higher than Source, as I stated I believe in Khaos. However with that belief comes the want/need to understand a system within itself. This is where I am now. Either way, something restricts us and something takes our free will. Perhaps Source is less than that which is outside our universe and others (Khaos) but it or something like it destroys those who would use the Lucifer Experiment, destroys those that would defy it, and forces a shift on humanity. The consensus believe only love and light can bring salvation, but that is foolish and arrogant.
Why can we not have free will? Why must we be trapped by the consensus, the melting pot? We are only given the illusion of free will, not the actual thing no matter how many people here say otherwise. Proof of that is the eradication of the martians.
7
hose who want the Lucifer experiment: I defend your choice and wish you well. But its worth noting, that ALL beings desire ascension. Children want to grow up, the poor want to be rich, office clerks want to be CEOs, spiritual beings want higher levels of existence.
When you cut yourself off from the source, the only ascension available is material. Everyone wants to be the boss, and eventually when those on the bottom see they are not rising it becomes a fight for control, and a fight to the death, and from death; another choice about ascension.
Its usually our ego that wants "independent" material ascension. But no one can ascend above the astral dimensions with their ego (also noted by R. Monroe in Journeys out of Body). Its worth saying that when you abandon your ego you are still you : you still make choices, have friends, ect. but you can see that selfish choices are imply unnecessary, and to want control becomes unthinkable. You then see such choices may make you feel good, but that is no longer happiness. Obviously I like the source. But I'll agree I'd like to get there with a boatload of my own experience, even memories of a few Luciferian lifetimes.
8
@Rhal But you forget why some do it. They want control over their lives, they want free will! Not ascension, survival! The ability to retain emotions that would be otherwise lost! The ego is as much a part of us as any other, it is not inhuman and we should not deny it.
Why does Source attempt to destroy those not within it? Why does Source feel the need to prevent our free will? If death is the end result of free will, so be it, but at least I will have experienced freedom in its fullest extent! At least I will have died a man with choice!
9.
Ascension is a joke. No one knows what it is or how to get it. Because no one here has done it. To profess you know ascension is to profess that you "assume" you know ascension. What if there is Ascension through the Lucifer Experiment?" Moreso, does it concern you that you are programmed with such an addiction of Ascension? You drug a populace to keep it docile.
Ascension or Staying Behind, heaven or Hell, Redemption or Damnation. These concepts are the very need for "one or the Other" and not a need for oneness. In saying something is, and something is not you are inherently removing balance. Love without the Ice of a dead heart is not balance, but a duelness, a duality, a two not a one. Yet This concept that is so drugging to the masses is left untouched because its what people want. We say "We want love, therefore love must be good.". However is that really true?
Source is not love or hate, good or bad, up or down. To say it is any of those things is to deny what it is. Source is everything, ALL choices. You can't cut yourself off from choice because Source wants to see what cannot be seen. It does not care how you view this world, only that you do view it. It does not care how you experience this world, only that you experience it. Source does not care whether you ascend or not, because regardless of what happens it gets to see itself in the mirror, watching itself through an infinite of tiny microscopes. In this way I equate Source and Khaos.
To say Source Is, is to say Source is not. We live in the valley of lies that have existed for thousands of years. The myth of good and evil.
10.
Nothing is 'bad, and nothing is 'good'. There is only perceptions. I never disagreed with what you said, I just choose love and Source. :3 See, choice. <3
I have the same views, just the opposite spectrum. I don't see an ultimate purpose. Source existed because it could, and created, well, all this, just because it could and wanted to. It doesn't care, as long as you exist and experience, you are valid and perfect. Everything is Source, therefore everything is perfect and valid. Even the Lucifer experiment, or any attempts at something along those lines. None of it matters. Time doesn't even exist, everything already happened, there is nothing we're all working towards, aside from experiencing more in our preferred spectrum. Just because I choose something does not make the other inferior or wrong, that's dualistic thinking.
11.
Religion calls it god
Others cal it source
Its the same prinicipal...same ideal...just looked at differen...for each word gives off a different feel.
As for the lucifer experiment...its just a part of evolution...not some secret plot...skin sheds so that new skin replaces it...because that skin takes a beating protecting what it covers....earths an organism....were like skin in a sense. Not saying were just suppose to flake off...were obviously more than that...but it puts it into perspective a bit.
The lucifer experiment is that necessary change. Lucifer is a fallen angel...a fallen star if you will....we experience the stars descent through energy....and the way it effects us is.....well like antibiotics.....it introduces a opposite force to balance out itself....Earth IS an organism. I feel that is a very helpful perspective to have in mind when thinking of the lucifer experiment.
What goes up must come down....and we like to build. Its a step...for earth...but we are part of earth..so we must be a part of the change she experiences, I don't know about you guys...but I can't just up and leave earth...its all I know.or remember if you will...and I don't know how to leave if I wanted to...
Whatever the lucifer experiment entails in the grand scheme....it is just change to keep life going...its a jolt of life that wakes you up and realize....well whatever it is you realize.
There's also a thread on this site somewhere called The Hidden Hand Bloodlines.....it has an article on that thread that's worth reading.
Happy adventures!
12.
The Lucifer experiment in NOT the separating of spirit from mind and body.
You do that when you die.
The Lucifer experiment is the separating of the your spirit from the Source,by doing that you become completely independent and you don't feel any connections to anything anymore, so you feel like you should be the leader rather than the one who is now, you feel like you should be the best, you don't think about the others anymore and you just want to accomplish your goals.This often makes a civil war break resulting in the destroying of the planet and the experiment being a disaster.
Besides that Source gives life, so basically you cannot reproduce without the power of Source. Some people say that there are different realities that feed off the power of source by using wormholes to take the energy, but they are cut off power and start to die.
13.
AN interesting concept, is that the seperation of Spirit from Source is much the same concept as the seperation of a Person from Christianity. it asks the question, how can one be moral without God? With the Lucifer Experiment you have men branching off becoming their own kind of.. Source Singularity. For all we know we may be part of a large scale Lucifer experiment where the bubble of "Source" we are in is not the actual Source at all, but just a fragment that sloughed off and grew.
Perhaps that is what we are as individuals, pieces of Source that have fallen away to become our own. It certainly seems not just possible, but likely in a theoretical sense. The Lucifer Experiment, like many things that contain the word Lucifer, or any ancient form of the Anti-Christian, is so chained in our psyche as being a bad thing that we neglect to fully consider it as a possibility. In fact, by changing the phrase to "Spiritual Genesis" which roughly translates to a kind of "Spiritual Beginning" or, a New Beginning of Spirit would be a similar, if not exact, concept. Yet I imagine it would be followed much more than something entitled the "Lucifer Experiment".
Like the term "Anarchy" Anarchy means "A lack of Government" but a Lack of Government does NOT mean Chaos. However, because the two words have been tied together, people believe that Anarchy means Chaos, and because Chaos is linked to "Evil", "Bad" or "Frightening" people find Anarchy to be a frightening concept. The same thing happens with the word "Lucifer" Lucifer is often shown as a "Betrayer", Betrayel is considered "bad" or "Frightening" and the very point of fear is to form an aversion to. So it translates by first impression in many of our minds as "An Experiment to be Avoided", and because the concept is dangerous we don't play with the possibility.
So it seems odd that we, as spiritually developed individuals of sound thought,spirit, and body, can begin to use negatively defining terms to describe the Lucifer Experiment. It is just doggedly simplified to say "The Lucifer Experiment means war". The concept is to break away from Source. But if you look at nature, isn't all of life ABOUT breaking away from source? You move out of your parents house, the source of YOUR existence. In fact, many of us may come here to feel as if we have a place AWAY from our families, OUR source.
Birds leave their nests. The very nature of life is to escape that which created it, because you HAVE to escape it. And in horrifying context, the very thing you try to escape catches up to you, and tries again. Death claims you by decay, as you run you are being caught faster than you can escape. Death catches life every time and creates a cycle of rebirthing where life tries harder and harder to get away from Source. The nature of life is to run from that which created it, because that which created it will also smother and destroy it.
You can choose to look at the living in the circle of life, but it breeds only mental ignorance as you forget the darkness of death. It is not the focusing of darkness that creates negativity, it is the fear that creates it. It seems that only in performing the Lucifer Experiment can we hope to escape the Source that seeks to constantly remake us in ITS image. If you look at life, all life, What do you see except a vein attempt to run from the center, and go as far as it can?
14,
Words aren't enough to explain my thoughts, but I'll try anyways.
If we are talking about the Lucifer Experiment as suggested in the spiritscience movie, it's more like "the Source" was helping the Martians. You ask me how, and I respond with it got rid of the Martians. Took them out of it's system. The idea of the Lucifer Experiment is to live apart from everyone else, and live in your own ideal world. Whose to say that the people that source killed really died? Why not let them leave this reality and start off as their own source? Also who's to say we aren't sources ourselves?
Think back to your first memory, whether it's in your past lives or current life, just think back, before you even knew anything. First you become aware of something, that's how the source started. Just become aware of one thing, than the next, then the next, and etc. That's it. Take knowledge of one thing to the next. That's all the source is. Have you forgot the flower of life? First was nothing, than one circle that made another, and another and continue that pattern, it's what we are doing. It the so called "source" may have been able to make perfect circles because when it's started it knew something we didn't, maybe it came from another source?
With this I conclude that it's just another infinite chain of events that if you look deep into, you'll go through around in a circle. Also, in someways I pity the source if it's conscious. It's something that knows everything right? So that means that alone. If ever someone tries to converse with the source, the source would already know what's that person's going to ask or say before that person says it. It must be bored out of its mind because there is nothing higher than it, nothing that knows more. I just hope that there are other "sources" to surprise him.
P.S I just take each moment as it is. I won't worry about the future, or the past. I won't even worry about the present. I'll just take everything as it is and see what I can do to improve on it. Good? Evil? Grand Scheme? Do they really exist? If they do, than I don't know right now so there's nothing I can do about it. If they don't than why are we even talking about it? Why fear for the sake of having something to fear?
15.
As I was reading some of the earlier post I am fascinated at the conversation some things I have been thinking about for years but having no one to talk to them about except my brother. In fact just the other day he was saying that it seems no one wants to talk about these things but us and I knew that couldn't be true. That being said my brother and I have completely opposite beliefs and our conversations, more often than not, end up in heated arguments. The main reason we argue is because I too believe in Chaos but even more so in Chance most people don't even factor in Chance to the equation but I feel its the most important. Okay I'm getting off topic but what I would like to share is that I have been searching and researching spiritual beliefs for a long time and, while I have come to my own conclusions, I have not been able to fill that void in my life nothings seems to have been able to replace spirituality. In trying to fill this void I have done many things that people would consider evil I have often wondered myself am I truly evil, but the thought of being able to cut myself of from my spirit had never occurred to me. I think it would be much better to rid myself of it than to keep resisting conforming to it.
16.
@hermit999 whoooa! I think you are getting into the bible right there. God must have created Lucifer first for Lucifer to exist, meaning that God knew what Lucifer was going to do, also God cannot create another god, he can go to semi-gods by becoming two, to demi-gods by becoming four, and so on, everytime god creates something, he should give away some of it's force... but that would be true if he was living in an universe, but as he is living in void, he is not really living is he, because void is nothingness, and you cannot live in nothingness... so it is quite confusing, and there might not be a God after all...
@mattchambers
How do you know that it leads to destruction of yourself? maybe they did not have all the knowledge about what they were doing in the lucifer experiment, meaning that it goes wrong, even the slightest error can create an universe where everything is made out of play doh. You need to be perfect when doing it, but you cannot be a perfect being if you are not in balance with yourself.... so trying to do the experiment in a species is hard, and there is a super mega ultra little chance that everyone in the species is in tune with themselves... so that's why the Lucifer experiment failed so many times...
And how did Atlantis do the lucifer experiment? there were geological changes (pole shifts and stuff like that), the humans couldn't get on with the martians, meaning that there was a lot of disharmony occuring, but there is no evidence of anyone doing the lucifer experiment.
17.
It is an interesting concept. I believe it is a fact that not understanding the shadow as well as the light is not seeing the whole picture. Both exist. The story is but one layer of energetic history. To get the best perspective one has to not just see the layer but the whole dynamic across time and space as this is not a linear view. We all have different ways of perceiving things and it helps to talk to each other to get the best sampling. I have seen that Lucifer is not as most of us have been taught/understand. He seems to be the one who hides and the one who reveals as well as the redeemer. We have been taught that Lucifer is bad and very difficult concept to "see." Then we have the idea of fallen angels which again is our conditioned way of describing/interpreting a type of energy and how it moves so to speak. The always has to be the one who goes first...the scout. To see what is out there, what is possible. Sometimes this includes risk as it is unmapped and unknown. This is the job of the fallen ones. I see them as the Raven who also look visually like angels or ravens to me. When we can't remember our emotions guide us if we let them. The heart will always take you back to source. Another layer is that the fallen angels are elohim. There were elohim who were split to take this journey and those who stayed. Those who journeyed were fallen. Now another level yet is that the elohim are one of the being we see with the ufo. As head of the fallen angels lucifer can be known as many names. Qetzacoatl, Brahman...etc....several layers but same essential energy. So point being is that we need both to know a story as we have light and shadow in us. We ignore the shadow and thats when it takes over.
18.
I believe everyone here has valid points in their own way. Its true that in many spiritual teachings they say that the ego is just a shell and when taken away leaves almost no resistance to "source"/ "consciousness"/ "all that is" and makes tapping into this energy is alot easier. When you look at the way your mind is layered at the very root is the subconscious, and i believe that is the closest connection the mind has to source while keeping its self in this physical holographic universe. Then you have your outer layers like the animal part of the mind where basic instincts lie, then you also have your conscious which is what we spend most of our time in. All those extra layers outside of the subconscious weaken the connection to whatever you wish to call that energy where all that is and all that can be lies. When you accept that energy is the basic foundation of everything and lies in everything, even our thoughts and intentions, the question arises of how we can use that to benefit ourselves. Well the subconscious is the carrier of our beliefs of what this experience is and it is the limiter of our full potential and actual being, but it isnt biased like our conscious mind where it will attach its self to only one thing. We have the ability to change its belief structure and when we do that, we can tap into that information field or source alot easier but in doing so we would need to rid those extra filtration systems that we see as the conscious/ego/animal mind because that is what attaches itsself to the belief systems that we have been led to accept as true and drains the energy from the intent that we wish to experience. That strongest effect of what we wish would be achieved when that thought/feeling/energy is sent directly to the subconscious (ID) without passing through the filtration system. And that is why those ancient teachings say the ego has to go if you wish to experience higher levels of existence. I agree with this aspect because ive been conducting my own research for a few years now, and the level of results ive attained backs their suggestion. Also the ego is a fabricated aspect of the mind meaning its not a naturally occurring thing in humanity. Due to the system that we live under, it has survived, along with the suppression of our true potential.
About the lucifer experiment though, i believe there is no such thing as "evil or good" there is just a system of balances that exist so everything can be maintained equally. Einstein said he believed that nature its self is very destructive, and i can agree with him on that. I mean our universe was formed from the most destructive blast that probably ever existed in this universe, but out of chaos is order. And for life to exist there needs to be these checks and balances. For one thing to live, something must die, but nothing really ever dies, it is just converted to another form of energy. We as spiritual/energy beings have the ability to evolve and grow and make this experience for ourselves just like the being that made this experience that we are a part of. I mean until we actually grow and understand what this reality and experience is, we really cant make any strong suggestions of what is possible and what isnt. And i believe that source would never limit someone or thing from achieving their own universal experience. Ps: Light based beings are not the only ones that can evolve up the ranks to a truly aware and superb being, "dark or evil" beings can as well. But this branches down to our moral opinion/belief of what good and evil are. The universe doesnt judge any action, and if "evil" wasnt meant to be, then it wouldnt. But its here and we need to embrace it just like we want to embrace love. Its just balance my friends. Sorry for the rant.
19.
You say source wanted to kill the martians for preforming the experiment but the way I see it it wanted to get rid of them because they were being harmfull to others (aka the people from atlantis). After the experiment when they were sepperated from souce in being, although still living in sources reality, instead of trying to find a place where they could be completely seperated from source their ego took control and they came to earth and tried to control the people of atlantis. To me this isn't a surprise because our ego is the part that is what makes us seperate and gives us the will to survive this life but when your ego is in control you will do anything to survive, wich means doing whatever it takes even if it is harmfull to others thus saying that your survival is more important than that of others wich means that in fact you believe that their choice of free will is wrong and yours is right. But isn't that a little contradicting the fact that you want free will so badly? Cause is you want free will it should be there for everybody not just for you? Wich is also exactly why the people of atlantis didn't exterminate the atlantians because their belief was based on the fact that everything in life is equal and has the same right to live no matter what their belief, wich is a belief that comes from love.
To me it seems you are just denieing what you are, wich is a part of source. The only way we came into being (we as in humans) is because of source's will to know itself. So what purpouse in life would you expect to gain from disconnecting with source other than mere surviving this life? Wich would place you in a state of fear (the fear to die) just because that is your main reason for living now.
And when you'll die where do you expect to go? Cause since you won't be part of source anymore I assume you won't return to source when you die.
20,
The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil and was written as a study by Philip Zimbardo after conducting an experiment where he used students as "prison guards" and other students as "prisoners" after only six days the experiment had to be stopped because of how brutal the would-be prison guards (students, mind you) had become.
As I have not delved fully into the book, or the study itself held at Stanford I will say that if a person is focusing only on the lower aspects of existence and becomes convinced that there is only evil and embraces that paradigm as their own "reality" then sure it would work. I wonder though if the "guards" were simply manifesting what they thought a "guard" should be, like taking what they know from the un-reality of popular media. I think it would have gone very different if they did not use all male guards (they did) and chose people from different cultures and social standing (these were all Stanford students). Regardless history is replete with many more examples where people spontaneously act with kindness and compassion. Consider the Japanese after their quake. Consider the world coming together for Haiti after their quake (I was there doing humanitarian work, and there were amazing things happening). Sure there are some douche bags, and you know what, sometimes I'm one of them - but not all the time. Hope this didn't muddy the water too much.
2.
The lucifer-experiment is one of these things that happen when you tell people "you are spirit, you can do EVERYTHING"... there IS a limit. And this limit is your mind. Accept it.
There is one simple reason why it's impossible: Even IF you become a source-soul (because thats what this experiment is all about), this universe you are in is not the one you created. If you want to get a successfull lucifer-experiment done you have to do it in a place that is not already controlled/created by another source. A place outside of the universes.
This is what lucifer-experments in this universe are doing: You cut yourself off from a system while you still try to exist in it. You become a foreign body to that system. Fate and therefore the universe itself becomes your enemy, just like a body that is attacking a virus inside of your blood with white blood cells. Thats why you become "evil": You automatically become an enemy of this system.
And thats exactly what happened on mars. You think ALL of the martians did that experiment? Of course not. Everyone had his own choice: You could ever try it or not. You can't just force people to take part of something so dangerous. So the martians were split into two parts: The one part did the experiment, the others did not. And they respected each others decision... until the experiment happened. And it worked, it did exactly what they wanted it to do. They just didn't get that it's still a stupid idea for the reason I just explained. So more or less one half of the martians became an enemy of everyone who was still connected to our system which includes the other half. It was a huge world war with everyone invited and enough nukes (not actually nukes, but you get the idea) have been thrown to destroy every life on the planet.
Some of the lucifer-martians escaped, came here, we didn't kill them even though they killed some of us because we have been way too nice and then they fucked EVERYTHING up. Fate even did send an god damn meteor to kill them! And we have been the colleteral-damage! And then fate even technically was the reason their merkaba-portal didn't work - I know that because I figured out that I, in a past life LONG ago, knew that something like this would happen. I actually made use of it because it brought my shadowself here from the twisted realms. And I was only able to see this event in the future because it was planned by fate, it wasn't random, fate planned this in order to get rid of the martians. Believe me or not, but what are the chances a meteor, out of all places, hits their town on atlantis? It wasn't coincidence. Fate was involved.
I hope I blew some minds here or at least gave some of you a new way to look at this.
3.
As I've said one million times, good and evil are subjective. Neither you, nor anyone else, can condemn the Lucifer Experiment because it appears "evil" to you. That is not a valid reason to oppose this happening.
I assume many that have broken away from Source via the Lucifer Experiment thought as I do now. They want to defy Source because they perceive it as malevolent/evil/etc and they can't take that. So they defy Source, open themselves up to new knowledge, and what do you know, Source tries to kill them. Because Source/the consensus cannot accept these new forms of life outside its own stage of puppets, it has to try everything in its power to kill them. A complete disrespect for life.
The Lucifer Experiment is not fully perfected. Once it is, a new race of beings will be born, but while Source still reigns I don't think that will be possible, unfortunately.
4.
I don't even truly believe in Source. I suppose I believe in it, but as I have made mention in other posts I feel that Khaos takes the dominant position over Source itself, and that Source is simply another aspect of Khaos (as an infinite number of other things are).
But the information Via Thoth Via Spirit Science says they cut themselves off from spirit, and thus became beings of only logic, Cutting off emotion. Yet in that, pure logic would dictate that doing harm to another may prompt revenge, revenge being harmful to you and thus logic would reject violence. Violence comes from anger, greed, and other emotional centers which are active in Right-brained (I think) individuals. So then the Lucifer Experiment did not in fact create left-brained individuals, it created a kind of randomly corrupt-right brained group that already had the technology to kill themselves.
Here is the question. Thoth, a seemingly vague figure, one who has been regarded as a Savior or a Fallen Angel that is here to detroy/corrupt/whatever us for his own gains. Has this story that he tells a guy about how there is a Thought "Dead Zone". If you start thinking in a certain way (Keep in mind this thought process would counter-act his own powerbase) than you are simply going to become the worst rapist/murder/thief and that is all you will do and have happen to you, you become a blight, etc. etc. It creates a Fear-zone, a section of taboo thought. Yet Source (It seems) IS all things. Therefore if Source IS all things than nothing is taboo. If this is the universe experiencing itself than it is also the universe lying to itself.
The thoughts of Thoth seem to be more akin to someone denying a snack because it will make them fat. This thought process simply does not make sense. Why are thoughts considered evil? A way of life that involves thinking in a right or left-brained manner considered evil? You could consider Right and Left brains to each have their own independent positive and negative charge. That positive and negative charge you may call empathy. The more empathic someone is the more positive their charge (That is to say how much they see and perceive the needs of others as well as themselves).
So once again I am finding logical faults in the Lucifer Experiment. And before we get into higher being channeling. The main reason I am asking this question is primarily because of that. So we can devolve this into a he-said she-said, or we can look at this from a perspective of reason and try and reconstruct the events that happened, and also try and figure out who Thoth is. I used to have a positive thought of Thoth, but the more questions I ask the more potentially malevolent the creature becomes.
5
So when races use the Lucifer Experiment (however imperfect) it defies Source. Source does not like to be defied, so Source routs the anomalies.
But I wonder, how long can Source keep doing this? How long until its creations grow out of hand. How long till they begin to be born with defiance of Source in them, like me?
6
I guess it was never made clear that I don't really believe in Source, outside that it exists because other people believe it exists. To me it is as real as the Easter Bunny. I believe in a power higher than Source, as I stated I believe in Khaos. However with that belief comes the want/need to understand a system within itself. This is where I am now. Either way, something restricts us and something takes our free will. Perhaps Source is less than that which is outside our universe and others (Khaos) but it or something like it destroys those who would use the Lucifer Experiment, destroys those that would defy it, and forces a shift on humanity. The consensus believe only love and light can bring salvation, but that is foolish and arrogant.
Why can we not have free will? Why must we be trapped by the consensus, the melting pot? We are only given the illusion of free will, not the actual thing no matter how many people here say otherwise. Proof of that is the eradication of the martians.
7
hose who want the Lucifer experiment: I defend your choice and wish you well. But its worth noting, that ALL beings desire ascension. Children want to grow up, the poor want to be rich, office clerks want to be CEOs, spiritual beings want higher levels of existence.
When you cut yourself off from the source, the only ascension available is material. Everyone wants to be the boss, and eventually when those on the bottom see they are not rising it becomes a fight for control, and a fight to the death, and from death; another choice about ascension.
Its usually our ego that wants "independent" material ascension. But no one can ascend above the astral dimensions with their ego (also noted by R. Monroe in Journeys out of Body). Its worth saying that when you abandon your ego you are still you : you still make choices, have friends, ect. but you can see that selfish choices are imply unnecessary, and to want control becomes unthinkable. You then see such choices may make you feel good, but that is no longer happiness. Obviously I like the source. But I'll agree I'd like to get there with a boatload of my own experience, even memories of a few Luciferian lifetimes.
8
@Rhal But you forget why some do it. They want control over their lives, they want free will! Not ascension, survival! The ability to retain emotions that would be otherwise lost! The ego is as much a part of us as any other, it is not inhuman and we should not deny it.
Why does Source attempt to destroy those not within it? Why does Source feel the need to prevent our free will? If death is the end result of free will, so be it, but at least I will have experienced freedom in its fullest extent! At least I will have died a man with choice!
9.
Ascension is a joke. No one knows what it is or how to get it. Because no one here has done it. To profess you know ascension is to profess that you "assume" you know ascension. What if there is Ascension through the Lucifer Experiment?" Moreso, does it concern you that you are programmed with such an addiction of Ascension? You drug a populace to keep it docile.
Ascension or Staying Behind, heaven or Hell, Redemption or Damnation. These concepts are the very need for "one or the Other" and not a need for oneness. In saying something is, and something is not you are inherently removing balance. Love without the Ice of a dead heart is not balance, but a duelness, a duality, a two not a one. Yet This concept that is so drugging to the masses is left untouched because its what people want. We say "We want love, therefore love must be good.". However is that really true?
Source is not love or hate, good or bad, up or down. To say it is any of those things is to deny what it is. Source is everything, ALL choices. You can't cut yourself off from choice because Source wants to see what cannot be seen. It does not care how you view this world, only that you do view it. It does not care how you experience this world, only that you experience it. Source does not care whether you ascend or not, because regardless of what happens it gets to see itself in the mirror, watching itself through an infinite of tiny microscopes. In this way I equate Source and Khaos.
To say Source Is, is to say Source is not. We live in the valley of lies that have existed for thousands of years. The myth of good and evil.
10.
Nothing is 'bad, and nothing is 'good'. There is only perceptions. I never disagreed with what you said, I just choose love and Source. :3 See, choice. <3
I have the same views, just the opposite spectrum. I don't see an ultimate purpose. Source existed because it could, and created, well, all this, just because it could and wanted to. It doesn't care, as long as you exist and experience, you are valid and perfect. Everything is Source, therefore everything is perfect and valid. Even the Lucifer experiment, or any attempts at something along those lines. None of it matters. Time doesn't even exist, everything already happened, there is nothing we're all working towards, aside from experiencing more in our preferred spectrum. Just because I choose something does not make the other inferior or wrong, that's dualistic thinking.
11.
Religion calls it god
Others cal it source
Its the same prinicipal...same ideal...just looked at differen...for each word gives off a different feel.
As for the lucifer experiment...its just a part of evolution...not some secret plot...skin sheds so that new skin replaces it...because that skin takes a beating protecting what it covers....earths an organism....were like skin in a sense. Not saying were just suppose to flake off...were obviously more than that...but it puts it into perspective a bit.
The lucifer experiment is that necessary change. Lucifer is a fallen angel...a fallen star if you will....we experience the stars descent through energy....and the way it effects us is.....well like antibiotics.....it introduces a opposite force to balance out itself....Earth IS an organism. I feel that is a very helpful perspective to have in mind when thinking of the lucifer experiment.
What goes up must come down....and we like to build. Its a step...for earth...but we are part of earth..so we must be a part of the change she experiences, I don't know about you guys...but I can't just up and leave earth...its all I know.or remember if you will...and I don't know how to leave if I wanted to...
Whatever the lucifer experiment entails in the grand scheme....it is just change to keep life going...its a jolt of life that wakes you up and realize....well whatever it is you realize.
There's also a thread on this site somewhere called The Hidden Hand Bloodlines.....it has an article on that thread that's worth reading.
Happy adventures!
12.
The Lucifer experiment in NOT the separating of spirit from mind and body.
You do that when you die.
The Lucifer experiment is the separating of the your spirit from the Source,by doing that you become completely independent and you don't feel any connections to anything anymore, so you feel like you should be the leader rather than the one who is now, you feel like you should be the best, you don't think about the others anymore and you just want to accomplish your goals.This often makes a civil war break resulting in the destroying of the planet and the experiment being a disaster.
Besides that Source gives life, so basically you cannot reproduce without the power of Source. Some people say that there are different realities that feed off the power of source by using wormholes to take the energy, but they are cut off power and start to die.
13.
AN interesting concept, is that the seperation of Spirit from Source is much the same concept as the seperation of a Person from Christianity. it asks the question, how can one be moral without God? With the Lucifer Experiment you have men branching off becoming their own kind of.. Source Singularity. For all we know we may be part of a large scale Lucifer experiment where the bubble of "Source" we are in is not the actual Source at all, but just a fragment that sloughed off and grew.
Perhaps that is what we are as individuals, pieces of Source that have fallen away to become our own. It certainly seems not just possible, but likely in a theoretical sense. The Lucifer Experiment, like many things that contain the word Lucifer, or any ancient form of the Anti-Christian, is so chained in our psyche as being a bad thing that we neglect to fully consider it as a possibility. In fact, by changing the phrase to "Spiritual Genesis" which roughly translates to a kind of "Spiritual Beginning" or, a New Beginning of Spirit would be a similar, if not exact, concept. Yet I imagine it would be followed much more than something entitled the "Lucifer Experiment".
Like the term "Anarchy" Anarchy means "A lack of Government" but a Lack of Government does NOT mean Chaos. However, because the two words have been tied together, people believe that Anarchy means Chaos, and because Chaos is linked to "Evil", "Bad" or "Frightening" people find Anarchy to be a frightening concept. The same thing happens with the word "Lucifer" Lucifer is often shown as a "Betrayer", Betrayel is considered "bad" or "Frightening" and the very point of fear is to form an aversion to. So it translates by first impression in many of our minds as "An Experiment to be Avoided", and because the concept is dangerous we don't play with the possibility.
So it seems odd that we, as spiritually developed individuals of sound thought,spirit, and body, can begin to use negatively defining terms to describe the Lucifer Experiment. It is just doggedly simplified to say "The Lucifer Experiment means war". The concept is to break away from Source. But if you look at nature, isn't all of life ABOUT breaking away from source? You move out of your parents house, the source of YOUR existence. In fact, many of us may come here to feel as if we have a place AWAY from our families, OUR source.
Birds leave their nests. The very nature of life is to escape that which created it, because you HAVE to escape it. And in horrifying context, the very thing you try to escape catches up to you, and tries again. Death claims you by decay, as you run you are being caught faster than you can escape. Death catches life every time and creates a cycle of rebirthing where life tries harder and harder to get away from Source. The nature of life is to run from that which created it, because that which created it will also smother and destroy it.
You can choose to look at the living in the circle of life, but it breeds only mental ignorance as you forget the darkness of death. It is not the focusing of darkness that creates negativity, it is the fear that creates it. It seems that only in performing the Lucifer Experiment can we hope to escape the Source that seeks to constantly remake us in ITS image. If you look at life, all life, What do you see except a vein attempt to run from the center, and go as far as it can?
14,
Words aren't enough to explain my thoughts, but I'll try anyways.
If we are talking about the Lucifer Experiment as suggested in the spiritscience movie, it's more like "the Source" was helping the Martians. You ask me how, and I respond with it got rid of the Martians. Took them out of it's system. The idea of the Lucifer Experiment is to live apart from everyone else, and live in your own ideal world. Whose to say that the people that source killed really died? Why not let them leave this reality and start off as their own source? Also who's to say we aren't sources ourselves?
Think back to your first memory, whether it's in your past lives or current life, just think back, before you even knew anything. First you become aware of something, that's how the source started. Just become aware of one thing, than the next, then the next, and etc. That's it. Take knowledge of one thing to the next. That's all the source is. Have you forgot the flower of life? First was nothing, than one circle that made another, and another and continue that pattern, it's what we are doing. It the so called "source" may have been able to make perfect circles because when it's started it knew something we didn't, maybe it came from another source?
With this I conclude that it's just another infinite chain of events that if you look deep into, you'll go through around in a circle. Also, in someways I pity the source if it's conscious. It's something that knows everything right? So that means that alone. If ever someone tries to converse with the source, the source would already know what's that person's going to ask or say before that person says it. It must be bored out of its mind because there is nothing higher than it, nothing that knows more. I just hope that there are other "sources" to surprise him.
P.S I just take each moment as it is. I won't worry about the future, or the past. I won't even worry about the present. I'll just take everything as it is and see what I can do to improve on it. Good? Evil? Grand Scheme? Do they really exist? If they do, than I don't know right now so there's nothing I can do about it. If they don't than why are we even talking about it? Why fear for the sake of having something to fear?
15.
As I was reading some of the earlier post I am fascinated at the conversation some things I have been thinking about for years but having no one to talk to them about except my brother. In fact just the other day he was saying that it seems no one wants to talk about these things but us and I knew that couldn't be true. That being said my brother and I have completely opposite beliefs and our conversations, more often than not, end up in heated arguments. The main reason we argue is because I too believe in Chaos but even more so in Chance most people don't even factor in Chance to the equation but I feel its the most important. Okay I'm getting off topic but what I would like to share is that I have been searching and researching spiritual beliefs for a long time and, while I have come to my own conclusions, I have not been able to fill that void in my life nothings seems to have been able to replace spirituality. In trying to fill this void I have done many things that people would consider evil I have often wondered myself am I truly evil, but the thought of being able to cut myself of from my spirit had never occurred to me. I think it would be much better to rid myself of it than to keep resisting conforming to it.
16.
@hermit999 whoooa! I think you are getting into the bible right there. God must have created Lucifer first for Lucifer to exist, meaning that God knew what Lucifer was going to do, also God cannot create another god, he can go to semi-gods by becoming two, to demi-gods by becoming four, and so on, everytime god creates something, he should give away some of it's force... but that would be true if he was living in an universe, but as he is living in void, he is not really living is he, because void is nothingness, and you cannot live in nothingness... so it is quite confusing, and there might not be a God after all...
@mattchambers
How do you know that it leads to destruction of yourself? maybe they did not have all the knowledge about what they were doing in the lucifer experiment, meaning that it goes wrong, even the slightest error can create an universe where everything is made out of play doh. You need to be perfect when doing it, but you cannot be a perfect being if you are not in balance with yourself.... so trying to do the experiment in a species is hard, and there is a super mega ultra little chance that everyone in the species is in tune with themselves... so that's why the Lucifer experiment failed so many times...
And how did Atlantis do the lucifer experiment? there were geological changes (pole shifts and stuff like that), the humans couldn't get on with the martians, meaning that there was a lot of disharmony occuring, but there is no evidence of anyone doing the lucifer experiment.
17.
It is an interesting concept. I believe it is a fact that not understanding the shadow as well as the light is not seeing the whole picture. Both exist. The story is but one layer of energetic history. To get the best perspective one has to not just see the layer but the whole dynamic across time and space as this is not a linear view. We all have different ways of perceiving things and it helps to talk to each other to get the best sampling. I have seen that Lucifer is not as most of us have been taught/understand. He seems to be the one who hides and the one who reveals as well as the redeemer. We have been taught that Lucifer is bad and very difficult concept to "see." Then we have the idea of fallen angels which again is our conditioned way of describing/interpreting a type of energy and how it moves so to speak. The always has to be the one who goes first...the scout. To see what is out there, what is possible. Sometimes this includes risk as it is unmapped and unknown. This is the job of the fallen ones. I see them as the Raven who also look visually like angels or ravens to me. When we can't remember our emotions guide us if we let them. The heart will always take you back to source. Another layer is that the fallen angels are elohim. There were elohim who were split to take this journey and those who stayed. Those who journeyed were fallen. Now another level yet is that the elohim are one of the being we see with the ufo. As head of the fallen angels lucifer can be known as many names. Qetzacoatl, Brahman...etc....several layers but same essential energy. So point being is that we need both to know a story as we have light and shadow in us. We ignore the shadow and thats when it takes over.
18.
I believe everyone here has valid points in their own way. Its true that in many spiritual teachings they say that the ego is just a shell and when taken away leaves almost no resistance to "source"/ "consciousness"/ "all that is" and makes tapping into this energy is alot easier. When you look at the way your mind is layered at the very root is the subconscious, and i believe that is the closest connection the mind has to source while keeping its self in this physical holographic universe. Then you have your outer layers like the animal part of the mind where basic instincts lie, then you also have your conscious which is what we spend most of our time in. All those extra layers outside of the subconscious weaken the connection to whatever you wish to call that energy where all that is and all that can be lies. When you accept that energy is the basic foundation of everything and lies in everything, even our thoughts and intentions, the question arises of how we can use that to benefit ourselves. Well the subconscious is the carrier of our beliefs of what this experience is and it is the limiter of our full potential and actual being, but it isnt biased like our conscious mind where it will attach its self to only one thing. We have the ability to change its belief structure and when we do that, we can tap into that information field or source alot easier but in doing so we would need to rid those extra filtration systems that we see as the conscious/ego/animal mind because that is what attaches itsself to the belief systems that we have been led to accept as true and drains the energy from the intent that we wish to experience. That strongest effect of what we wish would be achieved when that thought/feeling/energy is sent directly to the subconscious (ID) without passing through the filtration system. And that is why those ancient teachings say the ego has to go if you wish to experience higher levels of existence. I agree with this aspect because ive been conducting my own research for a few years now, and the level of results ive attained backs their suggestion. Also the ego is a fabricated aspect of the mind meaning its not a naturally occurring thing in humanity. Due to the system that we live under, it has survived, along with the suppression of our true potential.
About the lucifer experiment though, i believe there is no such thing as "evil or good" there is just a system of balances that exist so everything can be maintained equally. Einstein said he believed that nature its self is very destructive, and i can agree with him on that. I mean our universe was formed from the most destructive blast that probably ever existed in this universe, but out of chaos is order. And for life to exist there needs to be these checks and balances. For one thing to live, something must die, but nothing really ever dies, it is just converted to another form of energy. We as spiritual/energy beings have the ability to evolve and grow and make this experience for ourselves just like the being that made this experience that we are a part of. I mean until we actually grow and understand what this reality and experience is, we really cant make any strong suggestions of what is possible and what isnt. And i believe that source would never limit someone or thing from achieving their own universal experience. Ps: Light based beings are not the only ones that can evolve up the ranks to a truly aware and superb being, "dark or evil" beings can as well. But this branches down to our moral opinion/belief of what good and evil are. The universe doesnt judge any action, and if "evil" wasnt meant to be, then it wouldnt. But its here and we need to embrace it just like we want to embrace love. Its just balance my friends. Sorry for the rant.
19.
You say source wanted to kill the martians for preforming the experiment but the way I see it it wanted to get rid of them because they were being harmfull to others (aka the people from atlantis). After the experiment when they were sepperated from souce in being, although still living in sources reality, instead of trying to find a place where they could be completely seperated from source their ego took control and they came to earth and tried to control the people of atlantis. To me this isn't a surprise because our ego is the part that is what makes us seperate and gives us the will to survive this life but when your ego is in control you will do anything to survive, wich means doing whatever it takes even if it is harmfull to others thus saying that your survival is more important than that of others wich means that in fact you believe that their choice of free will is wrong and yours is right. But isn't that a little contradicting the fact that you want free will so badly? Cause is you want free will it should be there for everybody not just for you? Wich is also exactly why the people of atlantis didn't exterminate the atlantians because their belief was based on the fact that everything in life is equal and has the same right to live no matter what their belief, wich is a belief that comes from love.
To me it seems you are just denieing what you are, wich is a part of source. The only way we came into being (we as in humans) is because of source's will to know itself. So what purpouse in life would you expect to gain from disconnecting with source other than mere surviving this life? Wich would place you in a state of fear (the fear to die) just because that is your main reason for living now.
And when you'll die where do you expect to go? Cause since you won't be part of source anymore I assume you won't return to source when you die.
20,